ST Report: 19-Feb-93 #908From: Bruce D. Nelson (aa789@cleveland.Freenet.Edu)
Date: 02/22/93-10:47:17 AM Z
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From: aa789@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bruce D. Nelson) Subject: ST Report: 19-Feb-93 #908 Date: Mon Feb 22 10:47:17 1993 *---== STReport International Online Magazine ==---* """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "The Original 16/32bit Online Magazine" from STR Publishing """""""""""""" February 19, 1993 No.9.08 ========================================================================== STReport International Online Magazine Post Office Box 6672 Jacksonville, Florida 32205 ~ 6672 R.F. Mariano Publisher - Editor ----------------------------------------- Voice: 904-783-3319 10 AM - 4 PM EST Support BBS Network System * THE BOUNTY BBS * * TURBO BOARD BBS SYSTEM * FNET 350 ~ Fido 112:35 ~ Nest 90:21/350.0 904-786-4176 USR/HST 24hrs - 7 days 1200 - 19.2bps V.32 - 42 bis 16.8 Dual Standard FAX: 904-783-3319 12 AM - 6 AM EST ----------------------------------------- FNET.. 18 : ///Turbo Board BBS Support...1-416-274-1225 FNET.. 75 : Bloom County BBS.............1-415-965-9347 FNET. 350 : The Bounty *<Home of STR>*...1-904-786-4176 FNET. 489 : Steal Your Face BBS..........1-908-920-7981 _____________________________________________________________________ > 02/19/93 STR 908 "The Original * Independent * Online Magazine!" """""""""""""""" - The Editor's Desk - CPU Report - PORTFOLIO NEWS - TOS 2/3.06 Hints - KC SHOW UPDATE - GEMULATOR 2.1 NEW! - NVN NEWS & UPDATES - EXCLUSIVE?!? - DELPHI & ATARI! -* COMPUSERVE SLASHES RATES! *- -* APPLE OFFERS IBM CONNECTION *- -* FALCONS IN TWO WEEKS!?! *- ========================================================================== STReport International Online Magazine The Original * Independent * Online Magazine -* FEATURING WEEKLY *- "Accurate UP-TO-DATE News and Information" Current Events, Original Articles, Tips, Rumors, and Information Hardware - Software - Corporate - R & D - Imports ========================================================================== STReport's BBS, The Bounty, invites BBS systems, worldwide, to participate in the Fido/NEST/Atari F-Net Mail Network. You may also call our BBS direct at 904-786-4176, and enjoy the excitement of exchanging information relative to all computers, worldwide, through the use of excellent International Networking Systems. SysOps, worldwide, are quite welcome to join the STReport International Conferences. The Crossnet Code is #34813, and the "Lead Node" is # 350. All BBS systems are welcome and invited to actively participate. Support your favorite computers; Join Today! ========================================================================== CIS ~ DELPHI ~ BIX ~ NVN ~ GENIE ~ FIDO ~ FNET ~ NEST EURONET ~ CIX ~ CLEVELAND FREE-NET ~ INTERNET ========================================================================== ============= * ATARI EDITION * ============= COMPUSERVE WILL PRESENT $15.00 WORTH OF COMPLIMENTARY ONLINE TIME to the Readers of; ST REPORT INTERNATIONAL ONLINE MAGAZINE """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "The Original 16/32bit Online Magazine" NEW USERS; SIGN UP TODAY! CALL: 1-800-848-8199 .. Ask for operator 198 You will receive your complimentary time and be online in no time at all! WHAT'S NEW IN THE ATARI FORUMS (February 19) COMPUSERVE LOWERS ITS CONNECT-TIME RATES CompuServe Incorporated announced that it is reducing hourly connect-time charges for members who participate in its Standard Pricing Plan for the CompuServe Information Service. Connect-time charges will drop as much as 37.5 pct for most CompuServe services, including its popular forums, beginning Feb 28. Under the Standard Pricing Plan, members will now pay a monthly fee of $8.95 for unlimited connect-time use of 36 basic services, such as travel, shopping, investment and games. When using CompuServe's other services, members will pay an hourly charge of $8.00 for access at 1200 or 2400 bits per second and $16.00 for 9600 bits per second access. Previously, members paid a monthly fee of $7.95 and hourly charges of $12.80 and $22.80 for access at 1200/2400 and 9600 bits per second, respectively. NEW FORUM SOFTWARE The long awaited new Forum Software has been installed in all of the Atari Forums! Among other things, this allows longer messages and improvements in sending CompuServe Mail from within the forum. Some old commands have been dropped, and a couple of commands work slightly differently than they used to. Please see the file MSGFEA.DOC in LIB 1 of the Atari Arts Forum (GO ATARIARTS) for details on the changes. Don't hesitate to leave a note to SYSOP if you have any questions. NEW CENTIPEDE GAME FROM SCOTLAND! Download file CENTPD.LZH from LIBRARY 2 of the Atari Arts Forum (GO ATARIARTS) for an excellent shareware version of Centipede from Scotland. This game is FULL of bugs (Spiders, Flies and of course, Centipedes!) Great sound, great graphics, great fun! COLOR ONLY. RTS/CTS FLOW CONTROL FIX Download file SERFX2.LZH from LIBRARY 2 of the Atari Productivity Forum (GO ATARIPRO) for Serial Fix 2 - RTS/CTS flow control with any TOS. This patch for properly handling RTS/CTS flow control in the ST's serial port works on all TOS versions from 1.00 to 4.01. It also includes the TOS14FIX.PRG code for TOS 1.04 and 1.06 users. Use with Atari's eXtensible Control Panel (XCONTROL). SCREEN SAVERS Download file SAVER1.LZH from LIBRARY 4 of the Atari Productivity Forum (GO ATARIPRO) for a package of 6 shareware screensaver modules for Warp 9, by John Dillenburg. Modules included are Freckles, Pyro Deluxe, Random Lines, Roaming Shapes, Random Shapes, and Fractal Symmetries. LASERJET 4 DRIVER FOR PAGESTREAM 2! Download file NEWPRT.LZH from LIBRARY 11 of the Atari Vendors Forum (GO ATARIVEN) for the New HP LaserJet 4, HP DeskJet 550c, HP DeskJet 500c, and PostScript printer drivers for Pagestream 2. THE ATARI PORTFOLIO FORUM ON COMPUSERVE HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AN OFFICIAL SUPPORT SITE BY ATARI CORPORATION "GO APORTFOLIO TO ACCESS THE ATARI PORTFOLIO FORUM" """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > From the Editor's Desk "Saying it like it is!" """""""""""""""""""""" STReport was informed upsetting contacts were sent to the other major services about last week's issue (STR907) because we overlooked giving credit to a certain RT for a few messages we re-printed from that RT. This was an honest oversight, a simple mistake. For the last 2-3 hundred issues of STReport we've diligently attempted to ensure proper credits and by-lines were provided for the items appearing in our humble offerings. The main area we focused upon was the reprints of messages from the online services. After all, we feel that if that's where the action is.. then it stands to reason the readers deserve to know this. The very best manner in which to make sure they do is to give proper credit to the service the message traffic came from. Rest assured, all credits will be given and special attention will be given to making sure this never happens again in the future. These are amazing times. The Falcon's arrival around March first is supposed to be a done thing, yet there is still no mention of an interface that will allow current, loyal Atari SLM Laser printer owners to use their Laser Printers with new Falcon. Also, why haven't we heard anything about the "alleged overheating and case bulge" observations? Could they possibly be 'too hot to handle'? Odd... these pertinent points of information seemingly are left unattended by the minister of information but other _less than accurate_ tidbits appear to be the main focus of his full attention. Who was it that said they don't play the vendetta game? It sure looks that way. Also odd are the copious amounts of time devoted to political projects that are apparently not connected with the release of the Falcon or the positive growth of Atari. Time will undoubtedly prove the extracurricular activities of the "beloved" propaganda chief were not in his or Atari's best interests. In the last few weeks, an apparent campaign to "silence" STReport has been pursued rather diligently on more than one front. Amazing that all these "actions" are on the heels of each other. In any case, STReport will be here with regularity telling it like it is. We shall persevere and withstand this latest onslaught of those whose sole desire it is to silence STReport. It must be repeated many times over and repeated it will be. STReport's staff and publisher are not "down" on Atari hardware. We _are_ highly suspicious of certain actions of its leadership and their designates. Especially the perceived politics, head games and ego trips. There is no place for this sort of thing on this platform at this time. The best thing we all can do is work together to encourage Atari's leaders to concentrate on the growth factor and marketshare. Atari is spending far too much time playing games with the userbase. Another festering sore blemishing Atari's customer relations image is this business of "exclusives". This is a major, major _ public relations blunder_. It must be avoided above all else. The main reason is the indirect message it sends to Atari's loyal users on all the major services and that appears to be that "if you ain't where Atari is... you ain't there"! Or, in plainer language, go where Atari wants you to go .... else you receive less than average online support regardless of the fact you _paid the asking price_ for your computer and software. This is a plain and simple slap in the face to every user who must wait for the "cash cow" to be milked by Atari. One day... maybe just maybe... there'll be more than enough machines being sold to keep everyone busy. In so doing, the sniping and backbiting will be a thing of the past. Ralph @ STReport International Online Magazine """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" STReport's Staff DEDICATED TO SERVING YOU! """""""""""""""" Publisher - Editor """""""""""""""""" Ralph F. Mariano PC DIVISION AMIGA DIVISION MAC DIVISION ----------- -------------- ------------ Roger D. Stevens Charles Hill R. ALBRITTON STReport Staff Editors: """"""""""""""""""""""" Dana P. Jacobson Michael Arthur John Deegan Lucien Oppler Brad Martin Judith Hamner John Szczepanik Dan Stidham Joseph Mirando Steve Spivey Doyle C. Helms Lloyd E. Pulley, Editor Emeritus Contributing Correspondents: """""""""""""""""""""""""""" Michael Lee Richard Covert Scott Birch Brian Converse Oliver Steinmeier Tim Holt Andrew Learner Norman Boucher Harry Steele Clemens Chin Neil Bradley Eric Jerue Ron Deal Robert Dean Ed Westhusing James Nolan Vernon W. Smith Bruno Puglia IMPORTANT NOTICE """""""""""""""" Please, submit letters to the editor, articles, reviews, etc... via E-Mail to: Compuserve.................... 70007,4454 Delphi........................ RMARIANO BIX........................... RMARIANO FIDONET....................... 112/35 FNET.......................... NODE 350 NEST.......................... 90:21/350.0 GEnie......................... ST-REPORT """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" STR'S "BELIEVE IT? OR.. WHAT?" <>###############################<> "There is no comparison! The Atari Falcon is far superior to the PC platform." Sam Tramiel, 08/92 "My new office, which has a better view than my old one, is so far quite satisfactory. And Richard Miller is in my old office. The Forbes article was a mish-mash and misconstrued article full of half truths. We are anxiously awaiting the release of the Atari Falcon to bring us back to the forefront. The article has given us some laughs, but otherwise has not affected us." Sam Tramiel, 08/92 "As I said before, all marketing announcements will be made at Duesseldorf. I will not comment on future models of the Falcon. WE ARE TALKING TODAY ABOUT A MACHINE..... WHICH WILL BE SHIPPING NEXT WEEK." Sam Tramiel, 08/92 "I've just returned from Asia, where I saw the first Atari Falcon production coming off the lines. Let's hope this new offering will make it in North America. I know that the specs are great." Sam Tramiel, 08/92 "We have not yet even given the machine to the FCC. And we are only applying for Class B approval. According to our "experts", it should pass Class B." Sam Tramiel, 08/92 "...... We are not working for Wall Street but to make money for our shareholders and only think long term." Sam Tramiel, 11/92 psssst. FYI.... The Shareholder's equity is fine.... NOT! The Stock is hovering around $1.12 CHRISTMAS '92 has COME and GONE... FALCONS ....anyone? By the Way.... Does the Falcon work well with any... of the SLM Laser Printers?? NOPE! NOT YET! """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > CPU STATUS REPORT LATE BREAKING INDUSTRY-WIDE NEWS ================= Computer Products Update - CPU Report ------------------------ ---------- Weekly Happenings in the Computer World Issue #08 By: John Deegan APPLE OFFERS IBM CONNECTION - Apple Computer Inc. this week unveiled its SNA.ps 5250 emulator software package that allows Macintosh users to access applications on IBM's Application System/400 computers. Apple officials as saying the software package also will be the first Apple product developed under the Apple/IBM enterprise networking initi- ative and sold both by Apple and IBM. The package is set to be available in June at a retail price of $345. STEVE CHEN PLANNING TO RE-ENTER WITH NEW SUPERCOMPUTER VENTURE - Days after abandoning efforts to keep his company, Supercomputers Systems Inc., alive, Steve Chen and former employees are back with a new idea. Chen's new company, called SuperComputers International, will draw on some of the potential investors they located while trying to save SSI in their continuing efforts to create the world's fastest computer. A prototype of Chen's SS-1 was built and operating and employees claimed it could perform 51.2 billion calculations per second, three times more than the top machine on the market. SEAGATE PROVIDES MOTOROLA WITH 1GB HARD DRIVES - Seagate Technology says it's shipping the Motorola Computer Group volume quantities of its 1.2GB 3.5-inch hard drive, the ST11200N. The ST11200N's Fast SCSI-2 interface and 5,400 RPM spindle motor pro- vide a 10MB per second data transfer rate and sustainable I/O transfer rate of more than 4MB per second. The drive also features a 256K cache and an mean time between failure (MTBF) specification of 200,000 hours. MOTOROLA UNVEILS 1-WAY MODEM AS CREDIT CARD-SIZED DATA RECEIVER - A credit card-sized wireless receiver called NewsCard has been unveiled by Motorola Inc., which says the device can store information and transfer it to the new palm-sized computers and personal communicators. The $339 card, which incorporates a one-way modem and a 128K of mem- ory, "automatically can receive and store information such as electronic mail, stock quotes, news updates and data files." Motorola officials said a user transfers the information by inserting the card into an external slot on the PCs and personal communicators. The company plans to begin shipping NewsCard in the second quarter, when the new portable computing devices become available. HITACHI MEMORY CHIP BREAKTHROUGH - Hitachi Europe Ltd., has announced a breakthrough that could lead to new memory chips with a vastly increased capacity, but which would draw no more power than present-day micro-chips. A number of Hitachi-sponsored scientists and British researchers have been working on an advanced memory chip since 1989. Present RAM, or even more expensive but lower-power CMOS (compliment- ary metal-oxide semiconductors) memory, would draw many amps to power a 1,000 gigabyte (GB) memory, far more than is practical for any portable or even most desktop computers. However, the newly developed "single- electron" memory would not only occupy about 100,000 times less space than conventional memory, it would also draw proportionally less power, making massive memories practical for even PCs. If such memory became possible to mass produce at reasonable costs, it could eventually lead to a surge in interest in drive- less computers which depend on high-speed memory to store information in RAM disks. Such computers are now in use and in the past, when hard drives were expensive and slow, RAM disks were very popular. However, the cost and power demands of memories running into the hundreds of megabytes are not currently practical for most applications. As microprocessors increase in power, they place ever greater demands on data transfer rates and memory size, leading to an ever increasing requirement for massive and inexpensive memories. This latest develop- ment shows one way in which companies could meet the demands. ROBODOC INVENTER DEAD AT 59 - The 59-year-old veterinarian who in- vented the Robodoc, a robotic arm to help doctors in surgery, has died of leukemia. He passed away at Stanford University Hospital in California. Howard Paul intended his Robodoc to help in human surgery in such areas as knee replacements, ligament repairs and the removal of brain tumors. Robodoc is a five-foot arm with a high-speed drill and computer tech- nology designed to provide greater accuracy than a doctor's hands. It was used for the first time in human surgery in a hip replacement in November. SURVEY SAYS GUI'S EXPENSIVE BUT WORTH IT - A survey carried out by the Microcomputer Management Association (MMA) says that the real cost of moving to a graphical user interface (GUI) is high, but is worth it in the long run. In a survey of 402 corporate information technology managers, the MMA claims that it costs $3,600 per user to move to Windows on average. How- ever, of those surveyed, the majority said the move was a strategic one to make their company more competitive in the marketplace. Also, the survey results offered evidence that increased productivity is offset- ting the cost of the move over time. Of the various graphical user interfaces on the market, the MMA said that the usage of OS/2 2.0 is expected to increase. Apple Macintosh use is expected to decrease, however. Mac users surveyed said they were ext- remely satisfied with their operating system, but that they didn't see Macintoshes as playing an important part of their organization. However, the number of reduced instruction set computing (RISC) computers and Unix- based machines are expected to increase slightly. Microsoft Windows is the predominant GUI implemented in corporate en- vironments, despite the fact that most of those surveyed were IBM per- sonal computer users. Corporate America is expected to implement faster, more powerful personal computers, replacing 286-based PCs. While 386- based PCs will remain in use, the survey said 486-based PCs are expected to become predominant in the next 12 months. SURVEY SAYS COMPUTER LIT LAGS - A survey of 1,481 management informa- tion systems executives finds that, while three out of four believe workers' computer literacy has a major impact on company operations, most do not offer continuous training opportunities or even testing. Also, only 34% conduct hands-on exercises during pre- screening to determine the computer skills of job candidates. Instead, most -- 66%, according to the survey -- still rely on candidates' statements on applications or during interviews. CIS LOWERS RATES - CompuServe has improved its Standard Pricing Plan to lower online connect time charges for its subscribers effective Feb. 28. The monthly membership fee for unlimited use of more than 30 basic services has been raised $1 to $8.95, but the hourly connect rate for extended services, including forums, reference databases and multiplayer games, has been significantly reduced -- as much as 37.5% less when con- necting at 1200 or 2400 baud. The new rates allow subscribers under the Standard Pricing Plan to use CompuServe's extended services for an hourly connect rate of $6 at 300 baud, $8 at 1200 and 2400 baud, and $16 at 9600 baud. AMERIBOARD LISTS THOUSANDS OF US BBS NUMBERS - DP McIntyre, operator of the Ameriboard BBS at 412-349-6862, is rapidly building a massive database of bulletin board systems (BBS) based in the United States and he has made this monthly bulletin available free of charge for all BBS users and for posting on other systems. As far as known, this is currently the only national general interest BBS list being maintained in the US. McIntyre said that he will also build and make available "MISL," an international BBS list sometime later this year. __________________________________________________________________ > CIS LOWERS RATES! STR Spotlight GOOD NEWS FOR COMPUTER ENTHUSIASTS """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" COMPUSERVE LOWERS RATES ======================= (Feb. 16) CompuServe has improved its Standard Pricing Plan to lower online connect time charges for its subscribers effective Feb. 28. The monthly membership fee for unlimited use of more than 30 basic services has been raised $1 to $8.95, but the hourly connect rate for extended services, including forums, reference databases and multiplayer games, has been significantly reduced -- as much as 37.5 percent less when connecting at 1200 or 2400 baud. The new rates allow subscribers under the Standard Pricing Plan to use CompuServe's extended services for an hourly connect rate of $6 at 300 baud, $8 at 1200 and 2400 baud, and $16 at 9600 baud. Those who prefer the Alternative Pricing Plan will pay a monthly rate of $2.50 plus an hourly rate of $6.30 for 300 baud, $12.80 for 1200 and 2400 baud, and $22.80 for 9600 baud. However, switching plans could result in significant savings even if you are online as little as two hours each month. Some of the more than 30 basic services that carry no connect time charges under the Standard Pricing Plan are Associated Press Online, Accu-Weather Maps/Reports, UK News Clips, Grolier's Academic American Encyclopedia, Consumer Reports, HealthNet, The Electronic Mall, Basic Current Stock Quotes, Travelshopper, CompuServe Mail and Directory of Members. --Cathryn Conroy To Everyone: I am pleased (thrilled) to announce that CompuServe is reducing the hourly connect rates for subscribers to its BASIC SERVICES plan. Connect rates for these subscribers will drop as much as 37% for most of CompuServe's services, including this forum effective Feb 28. Under the Standard Pricing Plan, members will now pay a monthly fee of $8.95 for unlimited connect-time use of 36 basic services, such as travel, shopping, investment and games. When using CompuServe's other services, members will pay an hourly charge of $8.00 for access at 1200 or 2400 bits per second and $16.00 for 9600 bits per second access. Previously, members paid a monthly fee of $7.95 and hourly charges of $12.80 and $22.80 for access at 1200/2400 and 9600 bits per second, respectively. As per previous policy, the BASIC SERVICES plan is not mandatory for members, but I think you can easily calculate that these new lower rates will make it more advantageous for you to switch over to this new pricing structure. We expect that user activities in this forum will pick up with the new lower prices and CompuServe's resource management department has promised to keep an eye on things to handle the increased load on the mainframes. If you have any questions about the new pricing option, please don't hesitate to ask the sysops. Ron Luks Forum Manager With this news the users speak up on CIS in the Atari Fora; #: 37271 S14/ST REPORT 17-Feb-93 00:58:34 Sb: #37261-Inaccurate Reporting Fm: carl barron 75066,3204 To: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 Very interesting!! Takes the wind out of a few sails, doesn't it? Can you(or someone else be more specific as to which court cases determine subscription telecom. networks not to be common carriers, and which specifically designates them as a newsstand. Thank you... Email is fine if need be.... With these prices and software differences, genie will not be the cheapest even at 2400. Its software response is much slower... 9600 is no contest. CIS WINS that one without any fight, even at Jan.1. prices. #: 37262 S14/ST REPORT 16-Feb-93 16:42:18 Sb: #37228-Inaccurate Reporting Fm: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 To: Greg Wageman 74016,352 No, calling GEnie the discount service is no longer as applicable now that CIS (just this morning) has announced the details of its rate cut (up to 37%) for subscribers of its BASIC SERVICES. If you haven't already read the details, I'll be posting them very shortly. Ron #: 81100 S17/Community Square 17-Feb-93 03:50:34 Sb: #81059-News Fm: Domingo B. Alvear 74030,3254 To: Jim Ness 75300,3155 Jim, That looks VERY promising! So for $8.95 I can have all the mail and other stuff I want? And I don't get charged extra for 9600 baud? So the ONLY time I get charged is when I am using the Atari Forums? Is this TRUE? I was considering just sticking with the 'Alternate' plan, but this looks VERY good. And now mail won't cost extra. Dom #: 37283 S8/Hot Topics 17-Feb-93 12:30:21 Sb: #37271-#Pricing Fm: Sysop*Brad Hill 75720,540 To: carl barron 75066,3204 (X) Carl, Genie will still be cheaper at certain hours of the day for 2400 access. But on average, CIS is now _less_ expensive, and is definitely less expensive at any hour for 9600 access. Last time I was on Genie I was finger-tappingly amazed at how slow it was. -- Brad #: 37286 S8/Hot Topics 17-Feb-93 13:43:24 Sb: #37283-#Pricing Fm: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 To: Sysop*Brad Hill 75720,540 (X) Its important to remember that the raw dollar/hour rate isn't as important as the calculation of bytes transmitted per dollar. If you get much faster thruput on CIS, a slightly higher dollar/hour rate can still be more cost effective. #: 37300 S8/Hot Topics 17-Feb-93 23:05:34 Sb: #37286-#Pricing Fm: Sysop*Brad Hill 75720,540 To: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 (X) Ron and BobR, You're both right about "real" cost-effectiveness. When I first came online, I had accounts both here and with Genie, and it took me exactly one month to dump Genie. Explaining the move to friends and family (who of course are all INTENSELY interested in my every decision), I elucidated that CIs was twice as expensive, twice as good, and twice as fast. So at the time it seemed that I was paying the same amount, effectively, for a better universe. now, with these rates, there's no justifiable comparison between the two at all (showing my competitive nature, here). The February issue of PC Magazine has a comparative survey of online services, and CIS is the Editor's Choice... and that's at the OLD rates! They mention impending decreases, but don't give specifics. So I think we can expect to continue to enjoy increased traffic across the boards of this particular universe.... -- Brad #: 37299 S14/ST REPORT 17-Feb-93 22:36:07 Sb: #37285-#LOWER RATES Fm: carl barron 75066,3204 To: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 (X) Funny this 'Atari customer' has been here longer than Tramiel's have been with atari. <grin>. If genie is so 'cheap' why are the 'bills' I get awfully close to one another on a monthly basis now. You guys can lower the price here all you want <grin> but don't dispose of the features of getting from one place to another in warp (compared to them.) times... #: 37316 S14/ST REPORT 18-Feb-93 12:42:31 Sb: #37299-#LOWER RATES Fm: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 To: carl barron 75066,3204 (X) The only thing going down is the cost of our service-- not the quality. Give us a couple of days when the new rates go into effect to effectively re-balance the system but after that, I'm sure you'll approve. In addition to new, lower rates, we are still improving the forum software, too. Besides the new bigger 10k messages you see here, we'll be adding more features and increasing the sizes of our forums later this spring/early summer. #: 37317 S14/ST REPORT 18-Feb-93 12:52:44 Sb: #37316-#LOWER RATES Fm: Atari Explorer mag - AEO 70007,3615 To: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 (X) When you say increasing the size of your forums are you talking about message categories (about 18 is the limit currently) and file areas which are about the same size also? -- Albert Dayes @ Atari Explorer magazine #: 37332 S14/ST REPORT 19-Feb-93 14:29:44 Sb: #37317-LOWER RATES Fm: SYSOP*Ron Luks 76703,254 To: Atari Explorer mag - AEO 70007,3615 (X) YEs, thats what I'm talking about. ________________________________________________________________ > ONLINE WEEKLY STReport OnLine The wires are a hummin'! """"""""""""""""""""""""""""" PEOPLE... ARE TALKING ===================== On CompuServe ------------- compiled by Joe Mirando 73637,2262 Hidi-ho good neighbors and neighborettes! You guessed it: I've been watching "HOME IMPROVEMENT" again (grunt, grunt). Just think of me as "that guy behind the fence with the funny hat"... No, wait a minute. The guy behind the fence always has a solution for his neighbor's problem, so I guess that the part should go to Albert Dayes. Well, at any rate, I'm back again and ready to bring you the questions and answers that you've been laying awake at night thinking about... well, okay, maybe not. Read on, and see if you find anything of interest. From The Atari Productivity Forum ================================= A cute note to John Amsler from Hal Dougherty: "John, \\__________mmmmmmmm______ ______mmmmmmmm__________// ==============////////======\\_mMMm_//======\\\\\\\\============== ===/////////////////////////\\\MM///\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\=== //////////////////////////\\\///\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /////////////// \\// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ////// //||\\ \\\\\\ // \\ /|\ /|\ THE FALCON030 IS COMING! Keep the faith!" On the subject of the number of people using CompuServe, Mike Mortilla posts: "As a "regular" it would seem that there is an increase in activity. I would imagine that Ron could hit a few keys and find out exactly what the increase was. I've also noticed more User IDs as well as increased activity, not just the same members leaving more messages <g>." Forum manager (a fancy way of saying "Chief Sysop"), Ron Luks answers: "Yeah, our activity is up 'significantly' in the past 2 months, but CIS wont let me release exact specifics. I can only say that activity is up across the boards from more than just the USA and more than a small group of members. When the new rates kick into effect on Feb 28, it should get even busier." Dazzz Smith adds: "It has certainly increased in the past week or so, but prior to that I thought it had just dipped below the previous levels, rather than climbing from the normal levels." On the subject of standardizing programs Michael Smith tells Brian Gockley of ST Informer: "What WOULD be nice is if Atari laid out some rules for developers and everyone followed those rules, such as: Everyone supports the Atari Clipboard Everyone decide how to exit a program (ALT Q, ALT X, CTRL Q, etc) so that from one application to another, things are fairly consistent. Everyone follows the same rules on sounds: Gemsound is a great program, but with so many different events, you really don't know when a sound is going to pop up. Sometimes window_open and window_close are similar to other events so when certain windows are open if you have as sound assigned to window_open, nothing happens. Sure, this may be in the wrong area, but I thought I'd take off on your request. We've got the best hardware and a great op system (a little faster and less overhead than Macintosh) but if you'll notice Apple laid down a few ground rules and since then, nearly all Mac applications work in harmony with each other." Alex Kiernan replies to Michael about standardization: "But they have, see the Falcon Dev docs." Brian adds another facet to the "gem": "Agreed, standards can be a real boon to the user, though at times a drag on evolution. What my standards are might also not be someone else's favorite, but I think I could learn to live with that." Beth Jane Freeman gives us the benefits of her "exploration" of TOS 2.06 INF files: "I've been fiddling around with the desktop under TOS 2.06. To make a long story short, I crashed the computer. However, I learned some interesting things in the course getting the computer back to the way things were. First of all, if you're going to edit the icons or the NEWDESK.INF file, make a back up copy of each file. If you decide to use different icons for the folders, drives, and trashcan icons on desktop, there is a very economical way to do it. The HEX numbers are as follows 00 floppy disk drive 01 folder 02 trash can 03 program 04 text file (anything that's not executable) Replace each icon with your customized icon, keeping them in the same order as the original ones. If you are using ICON JUGGLE (hat tip to Charles Johnson, it's inventor), run the computer without NEWDESK.INF and DESKICON.RSC. This will bring the default icons into ICON JUGGLE. Append your custom icon file to this, and move your icons into the appropriate places (setting the controls to show the HEX numbers for each icon). Now, when you save this file as DESKICON.RSC and save the desktop, your floppy drives, trash can, folders, program files, and non program files will be set the way you want it. This saves a lot of space in the NEWDESK.INF file, and saves you lots of time setting things up. Before you leave ICON JUGGLE, write down the HEX numbers for each icon in the file. You'll need this later. When you want to customize icons for particular programs, or groups of similar files, use the "Install Icon" from the drop down menu on desktop. However, when there's a group of related files (like pictures, resource files, or spreadsheets), don't highlight one or more of the icons in the group. Go directly to the Install Icon menu and use wildcard to indicate the kind of file. Select the icon, and click on "Install." This is much shorter and keeps the NEWDESK.INF file shorter. You can also directly edit NEWDESK.INF. That is where the list of HEX numbers comes in. You can add more icons (or delete some you installed by mistake) by editing the NEWDESK.INF file. First you need a word processor (or text editor) that allows you to save ASCII files (or text). Set the margins for Left 0, Right 80, and Top 0. When you compare the list of icons to the listings in NEWDESK, you'll see which icons go with which sets of files or folders. "#I" at the beginning of a line indicates a file icon, and "#D" indicates a folder. Just make sure that you copy each new line exactly the way the existing ones are done, using all symbols and spaces. DO NOT delete any of the information at the top of the file. All of this tells the computer where to put the icons, what color to make the screen, and how the control panel is set up. You do have to be careful not to make NEWDESK.INF too long, or it won't work the way you want it to. I just have yet to figure out how many lines are too many. In the meantime, have fun, but be sure to save your original NEWDESK.INF and DESKICON.RSC in case anything goes wrong." Sysop Bob Retelle gives Beth some much-earned praise: "Beth... that's pretty terrific information about Newdesk Icons..! Would you mind if I copied your message into the Software Libraries so we can keep a permanent copy of it..? I'm sure a lot of people could benefit from your experiences, and your extremely clear directions...!" Have you ever noticed that you can be going along, minding your own business, when all of a sudden... WHAM! Someone gives you a piece of information that makes you ask a bunch of questions? Hey, let's face it: Asking intelligent questions is one of the things that Atari users do best. We bought Atari computers, didn't we? John Michael Zorko posts: "I have a 4M 1040ST, stock 68000 inside. I use it solely for MIDI as a sequencer/editor/librarian. My question is: What is this MultiTOS? One can infer from the name that it is a multitasking extension to TOS, is this correct? If this is true, I have the following questions: 1. Will it work on 68000s or should I get a bigger Atari? 2. How much disk space does it consume? 3. Are there any cut-and-paste capabilities, a la Windows/OS2, between applications? This question is important if i'm going to think of running CuBase (Steinberg) and X-OR (Dr. T's) together and have them cooperate. 4. How is device contention handled (a la MIDI ports)? Queued access? 5. Are applications protected from each other if one should crash? I realize that this may need an 030 or 020 with the MMU chip. 6. Is it relatively compatible with the more popular MIDI applications? (i.e. Cubase, Omega, RealTime) I would not use it as a multitasker so much as an application switcher. I understand the timing aspects of MIDI and realize that stolen CPU cycles could result in degraded MIDI performance, and my music is very, very important to me. Another reason I ask these questions is that I also have a 33MHz 386-based IBM PS/2 at home, and have toyed with the idea of using it for MIDI work. The only thing is that i'm happy with my ST, just wish it could do some of the cooler things Windows and OS2 can do." Jim Ness, creator of QuickCis, and all around fountain of info, tells John: "MultiTOS will work on standard STs, but it's very very slow. To make it work well, you would really want to invest in something with a 68030 chip. The system will be considerably faster, and will utilize the memory protection inherent in 68030s. All the ports on any ST are buffered, so device contention should not be a problem. Incoming data is stored via interrupt routines, until the application is ready to receive. You are correct in being concerned about timing. With a fast cpu and minimal multitasking (as in, don't run 10 programs at a time), you should be able to keep up with MIDI at full speed, and not have timing problems. But, I emphasize FAST CPU. There are also ways to adjust which program gets the most cpu cycles, just like Windows. The Atari products have had a clipboard spec in place for a few months now, which allow appropriately written programs to do cut/paste operations. So, it's all up to the programmer of the applications you are using, to use the new spec. This spec will see a lot of use in MultiTOS programs." John mulls over Jim's answer: "OK, so getting a bigger, better pooter is a given. I can live with that. Now, the question is -- which bigger, better pooter? Falcon or TT? BTW -- how much are TTs going for these days, and how compatible are they with ST MIDI applications?" Jim adds more to think about: "Well, for MultiTOS to work, I'd suggest the TT (basic 2meg with no HD goes for about $1300). But, for MIDI, I'd suggest the Falcon. Slower than the ST, but the MIDI folks are specifically upgrading for the Falcon; something they definitely did not do for the TT. You might want to consider an accelerator upgrade for your ST, instead." As is normal, Albert Dayes of Atari Explorer Magazine has more info: "Multi-TOS is Atari's Multi-Tasking operating system for running multiple GEM applications at the same time. Even though it can run on a 68000 based machine I think it is somewhat risky. Since the memory protection is only software and not hardware the protection of each memory block that each program runs in is not as secure. This can cause all sorts of problems. I would think that any 68030 cpu based Atari would work much faster and safer since it has hardware memory protection." I don't want anyone to think that I'm belittling Albert for having scads of information ready on almost any subject. Albert is one of the busiest, most well-informed individuals around and always has something useful to say. Thanks Albert! On the subject of chip versions (68000, 68030, and like that), Tim Rule posts: "I have spoken to a Motorola employee who had some involvement in the 680x0 processors. His version of the story is that there was, until about 5 months ago, an 050 project which basically brought the 68K up in line with intels 486 in performance and vastly improved the support for virtual memory and multi-tasking. It was to have the facility of connecting several 050s in parallel with each other. The integration concept was carried forward to include a new series of MMU chips and slave processors for the 68K (I think he meant the likes of DSPs and video processors). Anyway, the 060 project was also going on in the background which took the concepts of the 050 and, utilizing CRISK technology, made the whole lot much faster. What happened was that it was decided the 050 would not be fast enough to compete with the intel P5 (586 at the time) and so the 050 was just scrapped so that the 060 would come through sooner. I assume that this lady knew what she was talking about." Howard Jones posts a good, old fashioned, want-ad: "Help for the visually impaired wanted. I am teacher of computing studies in a high school in Wollongong, Australia. We are using Atari STs." Albert Dayes (see? what'd I tell ya?), tells Howard: "You might want to download MegaWriter it has a mode that has very large letters approximately 3/4 of an inch high. One of the authors is an eye doctor too so he (Dr. Bruce Noonan) can probably provide with some good information on what is a good magnifier for the ST." From The Atari ST Arts Forum ============================ Jim Linton asks for help with his STe: "A few months ago I purchased a Atari STE and I am having a few problems. I have several game programs that just won't work. I believe that the STE has TOS 1.6 or 1.62 and the standard ST had TOS 1.2. Is there a "patch" or other fix for this problem? I love the ST but there are several hundred dollars involved here and I like to try to fix this. Can you be of any help?" Mike Mortilla of ZNET Online tells Jim: "You might check the Ataripro lib (maybe this one too?) for the keywords: fix, patch and TOS. There was a file recently which listed *ALL* the necessary patches to date based on TOS version and machine, etc. Included with the file are all the necessary patches! I know the STe had (has) some problems with certain programs (games and MIDI if I recall correctly), and I'm not sure all of them have been resolved. If you're having problems with commercial software, check out the Atari Vendors Forum, too. There are some MIDI vendors who have areas in the MIDI forums, but they also lurk around here too. How many meg is your STe? If it's got more than 1 meg, there is a prg to trick it into thinking it's only got 1 meg. This will allow some programs to run which might otherwise bomb. I don't have an STe, so i can't help too much more, but maybe some kind soul will jump in. If you name the specific prg/game/application that's giving you a problem, you stand a better chance of getting the answer that will help you." From The Atari Vendors Forum ============================ Y'know how good you feel when you find a really great deal on something that everyone else around you is paying top dollar for? David Hagood lets us in on his little piece of good luck: "I found a place selling SCSI CD-ROM's for $195 plus shipping. These are True Big Blue drives and built like a brick. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to get it to work on my system. If somebody out there will help me, I will pass on where I got the drives (nothing like a little blackmail...) The drive ID's itself as "TOSHIBA CD-ROM DRIVE:XM" using IDCHECK.PRG. I have it connected to my TT as unit 14 (SCSI bus ID #6). I have an Insite Floptical at the end of the chain and have no problems talking to it. I am using ICD PRO level software at version 6.0.x. When my system boots I get my Quantum and Insite logged in just fine, but not the CD-ROM (no message at all from it). I have tried making the CD-ROM unit 10, no dice. I have kicked my max sector size up to 8K, no dice. I have installed MetaDOS, no dice on both the ICD CD-ROM driver or the Atari driver (device does not respond). I'd rather have a MiNT FSX for the CD-ROM than use MetaDOS. Any ideas?" Albert Dayes asks David: "Does metados (or the version you have) only work with CD-ROM devices on the ASCI side after a host adapter like ICD? Is it supposed to work with the SCSI bus on the TT? Also what type of Toshiba is it? Is it a 3301 or and older 3201 or 3101?" David tells Albert: "Its a Toshiba 3232 drive, and MetaDOS does work (sort of) on the SCSI bus. I can now pull a directory of the disk, but any attempt to access a file larger than 10K kills the drive. I think there is a bug in the MetaDOS driver. The guy at ICD told me that there was a MiNT FSX for CD-ROM but I don't know were to get it. Does Atari have a BBS anymore? Perhaps the CODEHEAD bbs, but I don't know the number." Albert keeps the ideas coming: "I would think your best bet would have been ICD or Atari. How many directories deep can you go on the CD-ROM drive? Is it only when you access files does it have problems or does it also have when you move around the disc." David replies: "It doesn't matter how deep I am: root or six deep. I have an extra thousand folders added so I don't think its the 40 folder problem. I think its just the Metados driver going south... I got MetaDOS to (kind of) work: I can pull a directory of the ROM now but accessing a file larger than about 10K kills the drive. I did pull the term packs on the drives, and the connectors are all Centronics 50 pin connectors, not 50 pin headers, so it is impossible to plug them in wrong. (plus, I am an electronics engineer and I know how to plug headers in, and to check that I did it right if something doesn't work)." Stephen Hebditch posts: "My old Seagate ST238R disk drive recently died and I've just replaced it with a Mitsubishi SP-MR535 drive I got a good deal on. I was told by the company that sold it that this had 5 heads and 971 cylinders - there wasn't any documentation with the drive unfortunately. However, when formatting it with the version 6.0.6 of the host software I got a sense error $90 during the formatting stage. Dropping this down to a lower number of cylinders I was able to get past the format stage, however it then came up with a load of sector errors while partitioning... So I reduced the number of cylinders to 870, formatted okay, had only a couple of extra bad sectors while partitioning, but then got a "Drive timeout while trying to reassign bad sector: sense code $FF". Have I been given the wrong number of cylinders for this drive? Is it faulty? Could it have been damaged while trying to format it with the wrong number of cylinders?" Geez, maybe I should change the name of this column to "Albert Says". Albert tells Stephen: "You might try the most current version of the ICD software which is 6.07 and its in the library. Also for the specs on your drive try the IBM hardware forum (GO IBMHW). Several people seem to have their books on hard drives open and can usually give your heads, cylinders, etc information without too much of a problem." Stephen checks around and tells Albert: "Thanks for that tip about the IBMHW forum - I found a useful file there listing the specifications of just about every drive that ever existed. It confirms the details my supplier gave me. It's looking like the new drive is faulty. :-(" Last week, Charles F. Johnson, while explaining why CodeHead Technology's WARP9 Screen accelerator would not speed up a FALCON030 much, he said "MTOS is sluggish because of its internal code." This week, Alex Kiernan tells Charles: "Sadly I'll second that, MTOS has some real goofy code in the AES :-( Roll on MTOS 2.0." Charles replies: "Goofy" is the word, all right." From The Atari Portfolio Forum ============================== Aren't PORTFOLIOs the best fun ever? (insert Dudly Moore cackle here). The thing that I've always found annoying about them is that they are not indestructible. Evidently, Thomas Wallentin has found that out also. He posts: "Where can I find parts for Portfolio? I need the flat cable that goes from the keyboard to the screen,and the LCD display." William Osburn tells Thomas: "You need more than the flat cable. The keyboard is a membrane-type keyboard with an integral cable built into it. Actually, it's a flexible printed circuit board. Obviously, you've had trouble with the material rubbing off the end of the connector from opening/closing the PORT many times. You will need to find someone with a dead PORT and replace it like I did or send it back to Atari for $110 and get a new one. Is the Sharp PC 3000 constructed similarly? Does anyone know?" Aidan Heritage asks: "Has anyone had experience in getting a port repaired? Mine has gone down on me this week - makes funny beeping noises if you move the screen, and won't switch on - unless you tilt the screen to almost shut, press the cold boot switch and fiddle with it. But even then, as soon as you press the OFF switch, it STAYS off! I popped down to the local electrical shop and picked up a new one for just under one hundred pounds sterling - which I suspect is going to work out cheaper than getting the old one repaired!" Peter Bennett tells Aidan: "I get the impression that you are in the UK which is where we are based. We've been trying to find someone who will repair Ports and have just managed to locate somebody. If you are interested, leave me an email message and I'll give you his number." Aidan replies: "yes, I am in the UK - and would love to have the number! That way, I can have one port in the office and one at home - or one on and one in the wash!" Peter chuckles: "Ok will do...hmmm - one in the wash!? ;-0" David Stewart asks: "Has anyone out there used the Becker and Partners 256K RAM cards or the 512K RAM cards? I have heard negative reports about the 1 meg and beyond cards that they produce, but so far nothing about the smaller cards. I have an application that might do well with a 256K RAM card, but I need to be sure these are stable ... and also, do they require a device driver to run? (I.E. do they take up any of the Port's internal memory?) I'm mostly interested in the regular-sized card, not the so-called "memory module" devices." BJ Gleason, 'foliomeister, and all around good guy, tells David: "I used one of the 256k memory cards in germany during a trip there. As far as I am aware, there was no driver, but the cards were very stable..." David replies the way any self-respecting Portfolio junkie would: "Please tell me more ... in fact, tell me every detail about the cards that you can. I called Germany for details, but it is a bit difficult to get too technical since I don't speak a word of German (B&P was nice enough to find someone to speak English to me, but I didn't want to tax their patience too much). You just put the card in the Port and started working with it? No extra software or special gimmicks? Was the entire card drive A: or was it split into two drives of 128K each? Did it "look and feel" exactly like a regular RAM card? Sorry, you probably don't know much more than you already told me, but I'm very interested in these cards. I hope that I can import some to offer over here, but the prices are steeper than the Optrol cards. RAM has some advantages over FlashRAM, though, and FlashRAM has some advantages over RAM ... I'd like to be able to use both! <g>" Well folks, that about wraps up this week's goodies. C'mon back next week, take your shoes off, kick back, relax, and listen to what they are saying when... PEOPLE ARE TALKING *********************************************************************** IMPORTANT NOTICE! ================= STReport International Online Magazine is available every week in the ST Advantage on DELPHI. STReport readers are invited to join DELPHI and become a part of the friendly community of Atari enthusiasts there. SIGNING UP WITH DELPHI ====================== Using a personal computer and modem, members worldwide access DELPHI services via a local phone call JOIN -- DELPHI -------------- Via modem, dial up DELPHI at 1-800-695-4002 then... When connected, press RETURN once or twice and... At Password: type STREPORT and press RETURN. DELPHI's Basic Plan offers access for only $6.00 per hour, for any baud rate. The $5.95 monthly fee includes your first hour online. For more information, call: DELPHI Member Services at 1-800-544-4005 DELPHI is a service of General Videotex Corporation of Cambridge, MA. Try DELPHI for $1 an hour! For a limited time, you can become a trial member of DELPHI, and receive 5 hours of evening and weekend access during this month for only $5. If you're not satisfied, simply cancel your account before the end of the calendar month with no further obligation. If you keep your account active, you will automatically be enrolled in DELPHI's 10/4 Basic Plan, where you can use up to 4 weekend and evening hours a month for a minimum $10 monthly charge, with additional hours available at $3.96. But hurry, this special trial offer will expire soon! To take advantage of this limited offer, use your modem to dial 1-800-365-4636. Press <RET> once or twice. When you get the Password: prompt, type IP26 and press <RET> again. Then, just answer the questions and within a day or two, you'll officially be a member of DELPHI! PARDON OUR DUST =============== We are currently rearranging the databases, so, until we're done you may not find some files where you expect them to be. Specifically, the Sound & Graphics database has been changed to Sound & Music, the Art database has been changed to Art & Graphics, and the Educational database has been changed to Atari Online. The latter change is to accomodate files uploaded from Atari Corp. Thanks for your patience. If you downloaded the Falcon program, BOOTCONF.ZIP, be advised that it has trashed at least one Falcon's non-volatile RAM. Use EXTREME caution, if you choose to use this program. DELPHI- It's getting better all the time! *********************************************************************** > KC SHOW NEWS STR SHOW NEWS A Date Change.. """""""""""""""""""""""""" KANSAS CITY ATARI CONNECTION IS PROUD TO ANNOUNCE AGAIN... KANSAS CITY ATARIFEST '93 As we had a conflict of dates with two other long running shows, we have moved our show date to remove this conflict. The new show date is listed below, we are sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. The location is the same. The location for the show is Stadium Inn, 7901 E 40 Hwy., The date of the show will be June 26th and 27th. Ticket prices at the door will be 5.00 dollars each day. Advance tickets will be 4.00 dollars each, for advance tickets, please send 4.00 dollars per ticket to: Kansas City AtariFest, P.O. Box 1653, Lee Summit, MO 64063 or if you belong to a user group please mail a request for a user group information pack. To make room reservations please call 1-800-325-7901, we are also working with a local travel agent to get special airfares for the show. You may call 1-800-874-7691 to take advantage of the special fares. For more information please leave Email as follows; GEnie, B.welsch, B.Frazier2, J.krzysztow, for CompuServe, Leave for Jeff Krzysztow at 74027,707, for Delphi, Bobtrow or you can call (816)224-9021, or mail to the address listed above. We hope you will join us to welcome the following companies; Cali-Co software, ICD, MissionWare Software, Fair-Dinkum Software, Systems For Tomorrow, New Dimensions Computer Center, Electronic Spinster Graphics, Compu-Seller West, ChroMagic Software, Paul's Software, The Codeheads, Clear Thinking Software, S.K.Ware, and a lot more!! Watch for updates to this list or check our Genie topic (cat 11 topic 11) Bruce Welsch KCAC Special Events Coordinator *********************************************************************** :HOW TO GET YOUR OWN GENIE ACCOUNT: _________________________________ Set your communications software to Half Duplex (or Local Echo) Call: (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt. Type: XTX99587,CPUREPT then, hit RETURN. GEnie costs only $4.95 a month for unlimited evening and weekend access to more than 100 services including electronic mail, online encyclopedia, shopping, news, entertainment, single-player games, and bulletin boards on leisure and professional subjects. With many other services, including the biggest collection of files to download and the best online games, for only $6 per hour. MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! Any time during your first month of membership if you are not completely satisfied, just ask for your $4.95 back. GEnie Announcements (FREE) 1. NTN Trivia is FREE THIS WEEKEND, join the fun in..............TRIVIA 2. Bristol/Farmington,CT - Access Number Change..................*PHONE 3. Travel EXPERTS needed in RTC every Wednesday night in the.....TRAVELRT 4. Find out if the Michelangelo Virus is a threat in.............VIRUS 5. Read this - or miss the HOT ACTION in.........................SOFTCLUB 6. Special RTC: World War II memories and a girl in..............GERMANY 7. 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NeXT Computer to become a software company only...............UNIX Welcome to... |"""| |"""| |"""""""""""""""""""""""| | | | ||"""""| | Your | | T ||"""""|| L || R | | Computing RT | | H || || A || O | | Resource! | | E || G || M || U | | ~ | | || E || P || N | | GEnieLamp Magazine | | || n || || D | | Electronic Publishing | | || i || || T | | Ed_NET | | || e || || A | | Bookettes! | | || || || B | | Online Magazines | | || || || L | | ~ | | || || || E | | Home Of The | | || || || | | Disktop Publishing | | || || || | | Association! | |"""||"""""||"""||"""""| |"""""""""""""""""""""""| |B33||B34.4||B35|| B64 | | C65.4132 | |===||=====||===||=====| |=======================| Your RT Hosts: John Peters [GENIELAMP] Jim Flanagan [JFLANAGAN] & Mike White [M.WHITE25] THE FEBRUARY ISSUES OF GEnieLamp ARE NOW ONLINE! """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" NEW FILES IN THE LIBRARY! """"""""""""""""""""""""" 1109 SEE.EXE "SEE" File Utilities 1108 GARLIC-MAGIC.ZIP "Garlic Magic" - by George Knoblauch 1107 EFORUM11.ZIP Electronic Publishers Forum - #11 1106 ANSIMOUS ANSI Editor for Macs (SEA) 1105 V6I6.ASC The Teleputing Hotline (Vol. 6, #6) 1104 REXXCOM-DPA.ZIP REXXCOM - ASCII Publishing System 1100 CANE0293.ZIP CANE calendars of events in N.E. 1099 DPANEW12.ZIP REXXCOM version of "News" for 2/93 1097 EP-WIN.EXE DEMO W/Grapics E.Pulishing Windows 1096 ORPH141C.ZIP Orpheus v.1.41 - Disk 3 of 3 1095 ORPH141B.ZIP Orpheus v.1.41 - Disk 2 of 3 1094 ORPH141A.ZIP Orpheus v.1.41 - From Hyperion PACIFIC EDGE ON GEnie! The Pacific Edge Magazine has joined the """""""""""""""""""""" GEnieLamp RoundTable. Watch for new issues in the library and reader support in the bulletin board. The premier issue will be the new File Of The Week this Friday night. Can't wait? Download EDGE0193.ZIP, File #1062. ### ################### ### ####################### Welcome to the ICD RoundTable! ### #### #### ------------------------------ ### ### ### ### Providing support for all ### ### ### ### ICD products ### #### ### #### ### ########### ########### Your host: Doug Wheeler (DOUG.W) ### ######### ######### GEnie ICD RoundTable Page 1220 GEnie Information copyright (C) 1991 by General Electric Information Services/GEnie, reprinted by permission *********************************************************************** > GEMULATOR 2.1!! STR InfoFile THE NEWEST RELEASE VERSION INFO """""""""""""""""""""""""""" GEMULATOR VERSION 2.1 ===================== NEW FEATURES AND IMPROVEMENTS SMALLER HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS INTERNATIONAL AVAILABILITY SEE IT AT THE SAC SHOW LOWER U.S. PRICES Branch Always Software has just released version 2.1 of the Gemulator, the Atari ST emulator for DOS and Windows compatible PCs. Gemulator allows a 386 or 486 based PC to directly run most Atari ST software (except for games and music software) and supports all versions of TOS, four different screen resolutions, and can provide up to 8 megabytes of RAM to ST programs. Gemulator 2.1 is now available from computer dealers in Europe and North America. In the U.S. and Canada, the list price is now only $229 U.S. which includes the Gemulator board, emulation software, and U.S. TOS 2.06 ROMs. Gemulator 2.1 is now also available in the U.K., France, Holland, and Germany. The versions sold in each of those countries contain TOS 2.06 ROMs appropriate for each country, and all documentation and software has been fully translated. Gemulator 2.1 will be shown at the upcoming Sacramento Atari Expo on March 13th and 14th in Sacramento, California. Come by the Branch Always Software booth and see Gemulator for yourself! Version 2.1 has the following new features and improvements: - the separate 386 and 486 versions of Gemulator have been combined into one single convenient version which is just as fast (or even slightly faster on some machines) than Gemulator 2.0. - the ability to create a virtual Atari hard disk partition on any size DOS partition means that you can now safely read and write Atari files anywhere on your PC's hard disk and even over the network, without having to reformat or repartition the hard disk as before. - a 4 megabyte PC can now emulate a full megabyte of ST RAM (up from 512K before). Gemulator can emulate up to 8 megabytes of ST RAM, double the 4 megabyte limit of the real Atari ST. - Pagestream and some other programs now print up to 10 times faster. The actual speedup will depend on the size and contents of the Pagestream document. A full page 8.5" x 11" 300 dpi Pagestream document prints out in about 3 minutes on an HP LaserJet printer. - the real-time clock in the ST keyboard is now emulated. This allows TOS 2.06 to boot up with the current DOS time and date. - the "missing keystrokes" bug from Gemulator 2.0 and other bugs are fixed. Gemulator already has several features not found in the real Atari ST, and in many ways it is much better than a real ST: - the ability to emulate up to 8 megabytes of ST RAM (described above) makes it ideal when using a lot of GDOS fonts, running the new MultiTOS or, editing very large Calamus and Pagestream documents. - the ability to emulate TT medium resolution (640x480 16 colors) allows most GEM based Atari ST programs to run with more colors and with better graphics than is possible on the real ST. - switching from color to monochrome (or vice versa) is as simple as pressing one key. Forget having to use two monitors and swapping cables all the time! - each Gemulator board can hold up to 4 sets of TOS ROMs and you can easily switch from one version of TOS to another by just pressing a few keys. This allows you to use the supplied TOS 2.06 with most of your ST software, but switch back to TOS 1.0 or TOS 1.4 for running earlier software not compatible with TOS 2.06. - due to the ever increasing speed of PCs and the availability of the 486 DX2 clock doubler chip, you can easily upgrade your 33 Mhz 486 PC to a 66 Mhz PC and run Atari ST software up to 3 times faster than a real ST. That's faster than a Mega STE, faster than a 20 Mhz accelerator, and In many cases, as fast as the Falcon. Gemulator now has smaller hardware requirements. Your PC need only have the following: - a 386 or 486 CPU - 4 megabytes of RAM - a 720K 3.5" floppy disk drive - a VGA card and monitor - 1.7 megabytes of hard disk space - a mouse is optional but recommended Gemulator consists of a PC board which plugs into any 8-bit or 16-bit AT-style slot. The board is used to install TOS ROMs which are needed to run Atari ST software on a PC. The emulator itself is simply copied to the hard disk and run from the DOS prompt or a DOS window just like any other PC program. The speed of Gemulator's emulation is affected by the speed of your PC's processor, hard disk, video card, and other factors, but it is usually proportional to the speed of the processor (the 386 or 486 chip). Below is a table of various processors and the APPROXIMATE speed of emulation compared to a standard ST (which of course has a relative speed of 1.0): 386/16 - 0.3 386/33 - 0.6 386/40 - 0.8 486/25 - 0.9 486/33 - 1.2 486/50 - 1.8 486/66 - 2.4 386 based computers running slower than 33 Mhz are not recommended for use with Gemulator due to the relatively slow speed of emulation. Gemulator emulates the 68000 chip entirely in software and so a fast 386 is required. The Gemulator package comes with a set of TOS 2.06 ROMs, but if you wish to use your own ROMs, the board and emulator can now be purchased without any TOS ROMs for $179, a $50 savings. You must of course supply your own TOS 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 or 2.06 ROMs before being able to use Gemulator. In the U.S. and Canada, Gemulator is distributed by: PMC (Purple Mountain Computers) 15600 N.E. 8th Street, Unit #A3-412 Bellevue, WA 98008, U.S.A. For ordering information, call 1-206-399-8700. In Europe (including the U.K. and Germany), Gemulator is distributed by: ACN / Atari ST Nieuws Postbus 5011 2000 CA Haarlem The Netherlands For ordering information; phone 011-31-23-351100 fax 011-31-23-351444. To upgrade from Gemulator 1.0 to Gemulator 2.1, send $49.95 is U.S. funds and your Gemulator registration card directly to us: Branch Always Software 14150 N.E. 20th Street, Suite 302 Bellevue, WA 98007, U.S.A. Users who last year upgraded to Gemulator 2.0 have already been sent a free Gemulator 2.1 upgrade disk. If you upgraded to 2.0 but haven't received the 2.1 disk, please contact us and make sure that we have your latest mailing address in our records. Here is a sample of what Gemulator users are saying about Gemulator 2.1: Darek, I've been using Gemul8r 2.1 on a GW 2K 486-66 Local bus video and IDE controller. I have the virtual HD on a Stacked partition, resulting in a 55+ meg capacity (I think). I am primarily using ST mode to access some of my terrific ST software, including Avant Vector, Migraph OCR, Pagestream, MegaPaint, MugShot, MVG, and many associated DA's, utilities, and applications. 2.1 is a *terrific* improvement over earlier versions. I think the virtual HD is a good functional solution to HD access, and runs flawlessly (as does everything else I've tried. This has got to qualify as "Hack of the Year"! ... At this point, I think Gemul8r is a SOLID, FUNCTIONAL system. It's easy to use, very SW compatible, and gives me continued access to my best ST software. Nice job Darek! Thanks for a great product at a fair price... - Marty Klein, Gemulator 2.1 user ______________________________________________________________________ > NVN WANTS YOU! STR InfoFile Another Network Supports Atari! """"""""""""""""""""""""""" National Videotext Network (NVN) has recently added an Atari ST Forum to it's growing lists of available services. The Atari ST Forum is ready and waiting for you! The future of NVN will be one which continues to remain sensitive and responsive to market needs. Additional services and advances in electronic information will continue to be added, to provide unique and interesting services on an on-going basis. NVN service offerings can be broken into three categories: Basic, Premium, and Premium Plus. **************************************** **************************************** ** 9600 BAUD acious! ** ** For users with 9600 baud modems ** ** SAME PRICE AS 2400 BAUD! ** ** TRUE on line savings! ** **************************************** **************************************** Basic Services -------------- Most of the Basic services are available 24 hours a day with no connect time charges beyond the basic membership fee. However, a select group have functions for which transaction fees are charged. Basic services are accessible through a flat rate charge of $5.95 per month. 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Your total savings using this plan would be over $20!* 12 Month Membership Pay $50 for a full year's Membership and get even more free time on-line. We'll give you a $25 usage credit to use in your favorite Premium services or try out new ones. You could save as much as $45.* For more information about either of these plans, give us a call at 1-800-336- 9096. *Both extended Membership options, including free usage credits are nonrefund-able/nontransferable. Members are responsible for all Premium charges over the $15 or $25 usage credit. You can join NVN one of two ways. By voice phone 1-800-336-9096 (Client Services) or via modem phone 1-800-336-9092. You will be issued an Account # (usually within 24 hours) National Videotex Network and the Atari ST Forum will be waiting for you. _____________________________________________________________ > STR Mail Call "...a place for the readers to be heard" """"""""""""" STReport's MailBag """""""""""""""""" Messages * NOT EDITED * for content ----------------------------------- From GEnie's GEnielamp RT Topic 1 Fri Feb 12, 1993 GENIELAMP [John Peters] at 12:40 EST Sub: STReport International Online Magazine STReport International Online Magazine 9 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 1 Fri Feb 12, 1993 ST.REPORT at 23:34 EST 02/12/93 STR 907 "The Original * Independent * Online Magazine!" """""""""""""""" - The Editor's Desk - CPU Report - PORTFOLIO NEWS - K & R C DEV system - DELL CUTS $$$ - COMPAQ TO EXCEL IBM! - APPLE-8 NEW Products - PRODIGY SUIT - PEOPLE TALKING! - SST ATARI SHOW NEWS - KC SHOW UPDATES - STR Confidential -* NeXT DROPS HARDWARE VENTURES! *- -* FALCON DUE MARCH 1st *- -* FALCON SPECS *- Ralph @ STReport International Online Magazine FILE # 1098 ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 3 Mon Feb 15, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 19:42 EST Hi All! Gee, It's nice and "friendly" over here. <g> I want to say thank you to John Peters and GEnie management for providing GEnie Atari users a place to obtain STReport as well as a discussion area here in the GEnieLamp area. Rest assured that there are many folks who _do_ want to read STR and didn't want to have to go to other services to obtain it. I'm sure that much of the "politics" will now be removed from the discussion area and we can proceede to proceede. %^) Thanks again John and GEnie! Ya done GOOD! Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 4 Mon Feb 15, 1993 D.JACOBSON2 at 20:21 EST D.D. - I second that "much obliged"!! Ralph and/or Joe, It may be a good idea that one of you send out a general mailing to all of those users who sent us requests to GE-mail the past issue or two that we are now located here and that they can once again download STReport. Some of them may not have seen the last issue or two and may be still expecting to find it in their mailbox. Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 5 Mon Feb 15, 1993 C.KLIMUSHYN [-Chuck-] at 22:26 EST Dear Ralph, Joe, and Co. Thanks so much for the E-mailed issues while the storm was a going on. Rest assured John Peterson will get a thank you letter also. Do you have an exact E-mail address for him? Best All, -Chuck- ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 6 Tue Feb 16, 1993 GENIELAMP [John Peters] at 02:08 EST D.D., (all), My product manager has asked me to hide the file and to put everything on hold until the behind the scenes stuff can addressed. Until I hear something from GEnie, I am (thank goodness) "out of the loop" on this issue. In interest of my own personal sanity, :) I will not respond here on anything that concerns STReport until then. John Peters GEnieLamp Online Magazine Member, Disktop Publishing Assoc. ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 7 Tue Feb 16, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 20:11 EST JOHN -- I understand, and didn't mean to put you "in the middle", but just wanted to express my thanks to the "powers that be" for offering readers of STReport a home. It's comfortable over here. %^) Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 8 Wed Feb 17, 1993 NEVIN-S at 23:09 EST John, I do hope that you will be allowed to carry ST Report. I have always enjoyed it, and hope to see it have a home here. --Nevin ------------ Category 12, Topic 1 Message 9 Thu Feb 18, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:56 EST NEVMAN! Gee... I like the friendly faces over here! <g> Hugs...Swampy ------------ Topic 5 Sun Feb 14, 1993 ST.REPORT at 08:32 EST Sub: LETTERS TO THE EDITOR STReport Online Magazine LETTERS """""""""""""""""""""""" TO THE EDITOR 4 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 12, Topic 5 Message 1 Sat Feb 13, 1993 S.CORLEY1 [SCOTTJ] (Forwarded) Ralph, nice to see you and STR back on GEnie. I do have one complaint though. The quality of STR has really gone downhill since Lloyd left. Where's the product reviews, the guest commentary and editorials, etc? Its seems nowadays most of STR consists of filler, with Ralph grabbing any online text file he can get his hands and putting it into STR. Its better to put out a good but small online magazine than to take a few good articles and pad them out with filler to make the magazine larger. You seem to have lost a lot of your editorial skills while Lloyd was senior editor, Ralph. The difference between the Lloyd and post-Lloyd STR is huge, as is the difference between the STR of 5 years ago (pre-Lloyd) and the STR of today. Oh well, at least even if the quality of STR keeps going downhill it will be a long time before it reaches the utter depths to which Z**** has sunk to. ------------ Category 12, Topic 5 Message 2 Sun Feb 14, 1993 ST.REPORT at 08:38 EST Scott, Its nice to be back.. I am constantly trying to improve STReport so rest assured your comments are well received and appreciated. I must admit ... that will all the distractions of late certain features of STReport have been obvious by their absence. Steps are being taken to enhance our humble offering. Thanks for voicing your opinions and reading STReport. Ralph @ STReport International Online Magazine ------------ Category 12, Topic 5 Message 3 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 11:31 EST I'm glad to see that STR has found a new home on GEnie. Maybe in a few months you'll be able to lure Lloyd back. -JN ------------ Category 12, Topic 5 Message 4 Sun Feb 14, 1993 D.JACOBSON2 at 12:54 EST Scott, With all of the recent distractions online and personally, things have been hectic. Personally, I haven't dome much for the magazine due to the renewal of changes at work that has kept me busy. As Ralph has mentioned, look for things to get back to normal once everyone is settled. I have a few things in the works, and a few ideas forming for other articles. You, and the rest of our readers, won't be disappointed. Jim, I dunno, I bet that Lloyd is enjoying his "retirement" and may want to keep it that way!! <<grin>> Still, I know what you mean. Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine ------------ FROM DELPHI'S ATARI AREAS SAY WHAT? ========= 48652 15-FEB 13:27 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48151) From: EIDSVOOG To: ABARBIERO I don't dispute anything you're saying. I'm just trying to point out what Charles said. Actually, it came to you here second-hand through Norm and he may not have phrased it the same way Charles said it a couple of years ago. Both Charles and I are heavily into studio work here in L.A. Yes, there are some "RABID Atari musicians" out there. I don't contest that. It's just that the majority of the professionals that Charles and I associate with in the music business seem to choose the Mac these days. This does not mean that the Atari is not a great machine for professional music applications. It does not mean that there aren't any professional studio players using Atari's (there are plenty of them). It is not intended to put Atari fanatics on the defensive. It's simply an observation -- an observation that I personally wish was not true. It's one thing to be completely devoted to a machine. I know that's true of me and Charles -- we're blindly devoted to the Atari. Otherwise, we wouldn't continue trying to hold a losing business together in hopes that Atari might start selling enough computers for us to start making a profit. But it's another thing to let that blind devotion inhibit one from seeing the truth and reality. That's one of the problems with the management at Atari. They don't seem to realize how the rest of the computer world has been progressing while they've been marching in place. Atari is very lucky that the major MIDI developers continue to support the Atari versions of their software, even though they are more heavily concentrating on the other, more profitable platforms. I'm actually surprised they continue, with the way the Atari market continues to dwindle. John 48653 15-FEB 13:43 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48162) From: EIDSVOOG To: ABARBIERO Andreas, Now that message is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention "blindness". You're implying that because a few very respected and famous musicians use Atari computers and have purchased them by choice, that it means Atari is "king in music". So you also think that, because Apple "GIVES its stuff to the big names" that it means fewer musicians _choose_ to buy Mac computers. Do you realize how flawed this logic is? I'm not saying that Macs are better for music than Atari computers. I'm saying that they are more popular among musicians and that more Macs are sold and used for music than Ataris. Why do you refuse to believe this or admit it? Do you have sales figures to dispute this? I'm also not saying that Apple or IBM are committed to the music niche, either. They probably didn't see a need to appear at the NAMM show. They didn't need to because their presence was made very clear by the support of the music developers. There were far more Macs visible in NAMM booths than Ataris. And there were far more "clones" visible than Ataris. I'd prefer not to have to point these things out, myself. But your illogic has forced me into the situation. I personally think that Atari computers are "best" for MIDI applications. And I'd love to say that Atari is "King of Music", but unfortunately that's not true. I'm sorry you forced me to reveal it. John 48654 15-FEB 14:12 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48277) From: EIDSVOOG To: ABARBIERO The Hotz box releases "raw creativity of the musician"?!? Sheesh, that couldn't be further from the truth. What it does is _restrict_ his creativity. It imposes a "template" upon the musician, strictly defining which notes he may or may not play. It's the musical equivalent of paint-by-numbers, a concept that probably holds as much water among true artists as the Hotz box does among true musicians. Dream on. John 48655 15-FEB 14:57 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48345) From: EIDSVOOG To: ANALOG4 That's a very astute observation. The difference where the Hotz box is concerned is that by the nature of the instrument, it imposes a set of rules that are defined by _someone else_. That is, either you spend an incredible amount of time learning how to program and set up the Hotz box yourself (possibly more difficult than the process of learning music -- the process which one is trying to avoid), or you simply use the preset configurations that are included with the Hotz box. These preset configurations are "templates" or "overlays" which limit the range of actual notes you are able to use. I hardly see this as an expansion of the creative process, but rather an inhibiting. When I play, I don't want to play notes that are defined by someone else, I want the freedom to play any note I choose. There's no such thing as a "wrong note" and I defy anyone to tell me I can't play a particular note. As a professional musician, I am naturally going to have a very snobby attitude where a device such as the Hotz box is concerned. The enticement of the Hotz box goes to the very core of human nature -- man's desire to get something for nothing. If people think that they can become overnight musicians without learning anything, they'll naturally become excited by the prospect. It's similar to the chord organ, or a spirograph, or a paint-by-numbers set, or as Norm mentioned, a karioke machine. It's the equivalent of "politically correct" music -- "musical fascism" -- "you vill play only zee correct notes!" This is not to say that the Hotz box is not a valid product. It has its place, just as the chord organ has its place. But the perception that some people seem to have about it is incorrect. It doesn't expand one's creativity or generate any talent that is not already there. Instead it restricts true talent while possibly synthesizing to some degree a false impression of talent. I have nothing against Jimmy Hotz personally. I've met him on several occasions and consider him to be a friend. He is definitely a very warm and caring human being. He's also very forgiving, too, if he's ever heard my views in the past about the Hotz box, because it's never diminished his congeniality. <grin> John 48660 15-FEB 16:11 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48655) From: ANALOG4 To: EIDSVOOG To tell you the truth, I don't know too much about the Hotz box, never even touched one. Your description of it is interesting, since I didn't realize that it allowed you limit the notes to be played, presumably to keep a person from playing something "off key." But as you pointed out, it's not the notes you play, but how you play them. I'm not much of a keyboard player, but I played guitar in local clubs for almost two decades. Some of my favorite riffs are comprised of notes that, if phrased wrong, would sound like barf. It's one of those things where, after you learn the rules, you learn how to break them. Obviously, the Hotz box won't teach a person that skill. ---Clay 48661 15-FEB 19:31 General Information RE: Printer Drivers (Re: Msg 48658) From: JGALLARDO To: EIDSVOOG John, I want to tell you that I got my Calligrapher Gold 3 upgrade the other week. I finally got a chance to install and use it late last week (I'll clarify that I got it about a week & a half ago). I must say that I'm impressed. I like how you can select from two printers, how the new installation program works, the new "change setup" utility, the general bug & aesthetic fixes, and the built in G+plus. I want to thank you and Charles for supporting the ST and for your timely service in getting the upgrade out to me. (I did this here in the forum to give a plug for CodeHead from a satisfied user <G> ) Jose 48736 16-FEB 17:28 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48561) From: ABARBIERO To: ATARIO Having two OS floating around could cause some problems, imagine all the software that would have to be written for both systems! Dungeon Master for XWINDOWS??? Andreas@AEO 48737 16-FEB 17:32 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48652) From: ABARBIERO To: EIDSVOOG Well, I guess I learned a lesson. Never start a topic talking about 3rd hand info on who said what to whom. If Atari can ship some Qantities. If they started providing more machines with more dealers, there should not be any reason to have a musician use anything BUT Atari. I think the main problem is since the whole F030 broke last year, its kinda hard to set up new dealers and sell something that isnt shipping. After the F030 starts shipping, then they can work on getting some more people buyng the damn things! Not to mention selling. (hear that norm! Old info got me in trouble! Thats the last time I listen to the crusty old guys! :-) Andreas@AEO 48738 16-FEB 17:38 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48653) From: ABARBIERO To: EIDSVOOG I did not FORCE anyone to say anything here, I am trying to make the point that the salient features that we all love about having and using Atari computers is still valid. Just because certain people state sweeping remarks about how this is bad, or how that is awful does not change the basics here. Atari is respected in the field, those MACs and clones are used because there hasnt been decent fielding of the Atari units in the past. Dont take what I have said out of context :-) Atari is not the king of all computers, they have a niche which can be exploited nicely and can then become a bigger influence on the rest of the computer scene. If Atari dealers were as prolific as they were, say 3 years ago, VERY few people would have a clone for music work! Andreas@AEO 48739 16-FEB 17:53 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48654) From: ABARBIERO To: EIDSVOOG The Hotz system does for music what DTP does for layout. It removes some of the impediments from manipulating the medium. Hotz systems are designed not to create a concierto, but to allow access to notes and sounds in an environment where how the sounds are triggered are not limited to a static keyboard arrangement, or linear soundpads. Sets of sounds can be arranged in a manner to allow the user the ability to combine and organize these sounds according to his needs or wishes. It does not replace a piano or full keyboard, it does not replace years of music training. It does attempt to remove the mind-numbing physical training that most intruments require to manage keys/levers/holes etc, and actually have a coherent noise emerge. Some musicians love it. Some HATE it. I think that it is a step in the right direction. DTP software can take all the hassle out of arranging text and graphics on a page, and allow someone to set things up without having a huge stack of paper on a desk, with glue, pens, and scissors scattered all over the place or limiting the page to what keys can be cut and placed on a press to then duplicate a letter, book, or encyclopedia. DTP software will not supply the talent and graphic arts skills to produce professional documents. That is up to the individual. Jimmy Hotz cannot make a classical muscian out of someone who does not have a clue how music is made, but he is trying to provide the world with a better interface! Andreas@AEO 48975 18-FEB 21:27 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48739) From: EIDSVOOG To: ABARBIERO I'm sorry, but you've got your analogies confused. The musical equivalent of a DTP program is a software sequencer/notation program, _not_ the Hotz box. A DTP program offers non-restrictive tools that enhance the composition of the document. A sequencer program does the same for the audio portion of a musical composition and a notation program does it for the visual portion of a musical composition. If there were an equivalent of the Hotz box for DTP (actually it relates more to word processing and writing), it would be some sort of a hybrid tablet. This tablet -- the interface you speak of -- would contain overlays of words grouped by style and meaning. Only a certain subset of words would be available at any one time, but the writer could rest assured that all of the words were spelled correctly so he wouldn't make a spelling mistake. Not only would he be unable to improperly spell a word, he would not have to worry about selecting an inappropriate word either, because the available words would be pre-determined to fit within the context of the group containing them. The writer could either spend a lot of time himself in grouping the words into what he considered to be usable sets, or he could take the easy way out and just select existing templates based on someone else's idea of how to write. Once the writer selects his group of words, he can easily select them very quickly with no fear of stepping outside of the bounds that confined the subset of words. He's truly free -- NOT!! Maybe you and others can relate to this concept when it is applied to something you know more about -- words. If this concept sounds absurd to you, you may be beginning to understand why the Hotz box is limiting to musicians. Once again, this is not to say that the Hotz box does not have a place in creating music. It's just that you seem to misunderstand it. It's a wonderful tool for hobbyists who want to tinker around with music without making an effort to learn anything about it. It restricts. Why not tear off all the black notes from a piano. That would make it easier to play. But what makes music good? Ease of creation? Or aural beauty? I'm not against alternative musical interfaces, but let's not delude ourselves into believing that restricting our resources is equivalent to releasing creativity. John DELPHI & ATARI! =============== 48359 11-FEB 04:07 General Information Atari Corp & DELPHI From: BIBLINSKI To: ALL Well, we've been working on it for a while now, and it's finally reached the point where we can quit hinting around about it, and make an announcement. DELPHI and Atari Corp. have reached an agreement that provides Atari Corp. with 5 new accounts here on DELPHI. Atari Corp. will be using those accounts to provide better support to the DELPHI online community. Just how those accounts will be utilized is still being developed by Atari, but the new Atari Corp. usernames provide a general idea of the eventual utilization. The usernames are: ATARICORP ATARITECH ATARIMUSIC AEXPLORER AEO_MAG One of the first things that will be happening with one or more of those new usernames is a formal Conference about MultiTOS and the Falcon030. The expected Atari personnel are John Townsend and Eric Smith. There is nothing finalized about that CO yet, but watch for announcements _real soon now_. <g> The ATARIMUSIC username will probably be used by interns working with James Grunke of Atari. With the recent NAMM showing, the music market is hotter than ever, and having Atari music staff here should bring a little bit of that excitement to DELPHI. So, if you're a musician, or just interested in using your Atari for musical purposes, watch for ATARIMUSIC to join us soon. AEO_MAG will be used by staff writers for Atari Explorer Online. Andreas Barbiero may utilize the account occasionally, but maybe he'll let some of the other staff members get a taste of DELPHI, too. <G> AEXPLORER will be used by the staff of Atari Explorer magazine as a doorway into our little community here. Hopefully, we'll see Mike Lindsay or Darren Meers drop by occasionally, to see what life online can be like without all the information overload some of the other services can have. Please make the newbies feel welcome here. They're here to provide support, and that's something many in the community have faulted Atari for not doing enough of. Let's take advantage of that support, instead of wasting their time with pointless questions about things they can't discuss yet. Patience is a virtue, or so they say. When they're ready to talk about something, I'm sure they'll be happy to give us all the information we want. --Gordie 48669 15-FEB 21:04 General Information RE: Atari Corp & DELPHI (Re: Msg 48359) From: WAYNEDUNHAM To: BIBLINSKI Great news Gordie. We can't wait to "see" the new accounts online. Looks like this wheel (Delphi) must have been squeeking a bit louder to get some "grease" from Atari. :-) Wayne A real tempest brewing here... AT WHAT PRICE? -> EXCLUSIVE?? ============================= BOON OR BLUNDER? 48662 15-FEB 20:03 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48312) From: WAYNEDUNHAM To: ABARBIERO RE: MTOS GEnie specific..... I see and understand your point about allowing MTOS to be GEnie only as a way of ironing out any last minute bugs before it goes into mass comsumption. I'm not however saying I agree with it. The more hands you get it into, the quicker you'll find all the bugs. The largest reason however is as I stated....With Atarians being such a fractured group now with vast numbers of owners having no dealer, user groups, or magazine access within easy reach only putting it on GEnie will severely limit the percentage of the user base that Mtos is seen by. For every 10 Atari 16 bit machines out there, I'd wager that at least 50% of them languish either unused, or running in the exact same condition as they were over a year ago. By "same" I mean that the owner hasn't bought anything new either hardware or software in taht (that) period of time. It may not be that they don't want to buy anything, it's just with our isolation from even our "Sibling Atarians" they may not know of any new stuff, or where to buy it if they did know about it. We need to SCREAM Mtos, Falcon, and any other positive bit of information from the highest and most numerous mountaintops possible. Screaming it only from GEnie (aka Mt. Everest) will only reach those within earshot of the Himalayas. Sad for us "Mt. McKinley" folks. Wayne 48312 10-FEB 20:11 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48305) From: ABARBIERO To: WAYNEDUNHAM I would agree with you 100% except for one thing. I am helping out with the MTOS roll-out with writing about it and all, and I look forward to GEnie getting it for ONLY ONE REASON... GEnie is the 'official' site of Atari support, and if there are ANY unforseen last minute bugs in the ointment, I would rather see people who had recourse to immediate help find the problems out first and then make sure that there is an errorless product for everyone else to get. Atari will be getting a bigger presence here, hey, Bob does his best, but with the others we would like to be bringing online, some major support is about to come on in. Think of GEnie getting it first as a last minute mini beta test!! Andreas@AEO 48364 11-FEB 07:14 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48312) From: OCS To: ABARBIERO - GEnie is the 'official' site of Atari support, and if there are ANY - unforseen last minute bugs in the ointment, I would rather see people - who had recourse to immediate help find the problems out first and - then make sure that there is an errorless product for everyone else to - get. There will never be an errorless TOS... software engineering tells you that it is basically impossible get get _all_ bugs out of a piece of software with this size. Oliver PS: Well, the KBS operating system might be the exception to this rule < ducking> Read today's issue of c't magazine for the second part of a three-part series about KBS (gotta get this plug in here <grin>) 48690 16-FEB 01:59 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48662) From: JGALLARDO To: WAYNEDUNHAM RE: MTOS One way might be to flood Atari's new Delphi Accounts with EMail requesting that if they choose to distribute it by uploading it on GEnie, to also do so here on Delphi. Jose 48696 16-FEB 03:08 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48663) From: BIBLINSKI To: WAYNEDUNHAM Wayne, To be truly useful, MultiTOS must be run on either a TT or a Falcon. Believe me when I say it sucks on a regular 8mHz ST. Too slow to be of much real use. So, the limited, temporary, proposed distribution on GEnie isn't as bad as it might first seem. Why get everybody excited about something they'll end up disgusted with? (Those with TTs will probably not be disgusted. No, they most definitely will NOT be disgusted.) And, if it is distributed, for a limited time, on GEnie, it will generate a little revenue for Atari, something they need probably worse than most of us. If they do decide to distribute it freely, and that's still an if at this point, I have no problem with them starting with GEnie, their 'home' service, first. I doubt that the short period it's exclusive there will make much difference in how widely it gets distributed. (If it does get distributed that way, of course.) And, since this whole thing is pure supposition anyway, I have to throw in that it might very well be possible that we can work some kind of deal with Atari to get it up here as quickly as possible, especially now that they have some accounts to use for tech support. <g> --Gordie 48719 16-FEB 06:58 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48662) From: OCS To: WAYNEDUNHAM - I see and understand your point about allowing MTOS to be GEnie only - as a way of ironing out any last minute bugs before it goes into mass - comsumption. - I'm not however saying I agree with it. The more hands you get - it into, the quicker you'll find all the bugs. Hundreds of betatesters (official and unofficial ones) have had MTOS for almost a year now. If it still isn't functioning decently, it is not a matter of bugs not being found, but of getting them out of the code. I don't really buy this "last minute bug" argumentation... Oliver 48722 16-FEB 14:20 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48696) From: OCS To: BIBLINSKI - To be truly useful, MultiTOS must be run on either a TT or a Falcon. - Believe me when I say it sucks on a regular 8mHz ST. Too slow to be - of much real use. Gordie, I have used it on my 8 MHz ST, and it is _not_ useless. Of course, the CPU doesn't provide the power to allow you to work comfortably while having a compiler running in the background (at least not with MultiTOS/GEM, with KBS it does work due to a smart scheduling algorithm that gives interactive processes all the time they need). But it is a very comfortable way to switch from one program to another without having to leave one application and start the other one. I have used the MultiFinder quite a few times lately, and while I never needed to really run more than one program at a time, I found it extremely useful to be able to switch from one program to another by just clicking on it's window. Why do you think was MultiGEM so successful (on STs!) even though it was much worse than MultiTOS? Oliver (I want MTOS!!!!) PS: If it is limited to GEnie, can someone provide me with a copy on disk? Would that be legal? 48740 16-FEB 17:55 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48662) From: ABARBIERO To: WAYNEDUNHAM IF Atari decides to put MTOS out as a GEnie only thing... and nothing has been decided... then 7 days on GEnie will not kill anyone. I am coordinating a formal CO here with J.Townshend and E.Smith for Delphi soon. I will let you all know what happens! Andreas@AEO 48746 16-FEB 19:21 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48662) From: DPJ To: WAYNEDUNHAM Wayne, I left a similar message as yours on GEnie. I got a bunch of crap because of it. I was given the reason that as a business, it's to Genie's (Darlah's) best interest as a business to have an exclusive "edge". I was also told that the other services have done this in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. By the past, they are of course referring to exclusive files from both Antic on CIS and Analog here on Delphi. I replied that back _then_ when the market/userbase was much larger, that kind of activity may have been acceptable, but today, it just isn't so. Plus, it's a _little_ bit different when it's software from Atari than magazine PD software. I don't like the idea of exclusive files anywhere, as it is not fair to those who can't get it for one reason or another. Oh well.... Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine 48747 16-FEB 19:28 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48684) From: DPJ To: MRBURKLEY The limited time that the file(s) will be on GEnie will be so that the Atari area there will have "x" amount of time to have users download it and make some money for that Atari area. Atari has how many new accounts here? CIS has Atari accounts also. All three services having access to these programs will enable even more feedback and possible bug reports. I don't think that this should be restricted (by time or officialdom) to any service - whether it be Delphi, GEnie, or CIS. Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine 48748 16-FEB 19:38 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48696) From: DPJ To: BIBLINSKI I agree that the ST and STe users aren't going to get a whole lot of use and speed out of it, but to be able to have it to play with and see the potential will help to sell the Falcon. Not only to current Atari owners, but perhaps to friends of Atari users who see it and can realize what it's capable of doing (on the right machine). I have 2 STs. I know MTOS isn't going to help _me_ much, but I certainly want to check it out and see what it's all about. Like most Atari users, when I know of a new program that's heralded as a great one, I want it as fast as I can get it!! <<grin>> Having it be exclusive to one service or another is going to cause a lot of resentment (albeit for a short(?) period of time). If it's money that Atari is interested (and I don't think it is), then they should sell it to anyone who wants it for a nominal fee. Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine 48758 16-FEB 21:07 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48740) From: WAYNEDUNHAM To: ABARBIERO Andreas, If the GEnie exclusive is only 7 days then I don't have a problem with that. In the past most GEnie exclusives have been at least 30 days which is unreasonable. I must say however that 7 days of exclusivity would pretty much shoot down the "find the bugs" excuse. 7 days is nowhere near enough time to find bugs, nevermind get the fixes coded and re-uploaded. Not that I'm advocating a longer exclusivity, I'm definitely not! :-) Wayne 48759 16-FEB 21:15 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48746) From: WAYNEDUNHAM To: DPJ I totally agree Dana. Services negotiating exclusive contracts with magazines, PD authors, etc isn't the same kettle of fish as trying to browbeat the userbase into joining their service or lose all manner of contact with Atari. I'm liking GEnie and their attitude less and less all the time. Harkens back a few years when I cancelled my subscription to CI$ over very similiar circumstances. I sure hope Atari knows that Atarians as a group are non-conformers who don't follow the crowd or buy into something just because it's the most popular. We're much more discriminating in our choices. We aren't lemmings waiting to follow the gang over the cliff. The more someone tells me they are the "Best" the more I realize that they aren't the "Best" for me. When you're at the top you forget how you got there, what it felt like being stomped on by the top dogs as you tried to climb up. Basically you just get complacent and forget about what got you to the top. I'll take someone in the middle of the pack every time. They try harder, and generally treat you nicer. Microsoft is the #1 software company, while the CodeHeads probably aren't in the top 100. I'd MUCH rather deal with the CodeHeads, one look at Windoze and it's easy to see Microsoft has lost touch with reality. :'\ Wayne 48761 16-FEB 21:18 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48722) From: BIBLINSKI To: OCS Re-read my message, Oliver. I didn't say it was useless, just of little real use. I tried running Interlink with MTOS, and I had to type at about 2 cps to get Interlink to accept the input. My typing isn't that good, but I can get going a bit faster than that! I haven't played that much with it, but given the incompatibilities of so many programs, and the lack of memory protection with the 68000, I wouldn't want to trust it most of the time. (Of course, I only have a beta version of MTOS, I can't say how the final version will be.) Besides, I can't deal with the slow speed of the 8mHz when I'm using Pagestream anyway, so having it even slower would kill me. <G> --Gordie 48791 17-FEB 07:10 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48761) From: OCS To: BIBLINSKI Gordie, I am currently logged in using my old betatest version of MTOS (which dates back to March 3, 1992). Of course, Uniterm doesn't work, so I am using an old version of Rufus (the famous German telecom software). I don't have any background processes at the moment, and the 6*6 font (for some reason I don't have a larger one, guess I would need GDOS to get a readble larger font) slows the screen output down, but I can type as fast as with Uniterm and single-tasking TOS. I WANT MTOS!!!! Oliver 48805 17-FEB 10:20 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48740) From: OCS To: ABARBIERO - IF Atari decides to put MTOS out as a GEnie only thing... and nothing - has been decided... then 7 days on GEnie will not kill anyone. Are we talking about a 7 days "exclusive distribution period" for Delphi? Considering that it will probably take me a whole day to download the file from Delphi (with the slow d/l via Kermit and Internet) I can live with that. Two months, for example, would be totally unacceptable. Then again, do you really think that a week is enough to get bug reports and reactions on those by Atari? After all, MTOS has been betatested for several months now, and those bugs that haven't been found during that time will hardly appear in a week. BTW, please make sure that MTOS is not being uploaded to Delphi in one large file, otherwise a breakdown of the line to Delphi (happens to me all the time lately) means that everything downloaded so far is lost. And I can guarantee you that my line will break down at least once within every 200 KB. Oliver48815 17-FEB 11:15 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48305) From: BOBBRO To: WAYNEDUNHAM Wayne, Thanks for sharing your opinion with me. I appreciate the time and expense that you went to do share it with me. The reality is that we have had, and continue to have, a contractual arrangement with GEnie. It requires that GEnie be at the forefront of all of our online activities. As you've no doubt noticed, Delphi is now more interested in a greater role with Atari as well. First, you need to understand that the idea that ANY of those file be uploaded is only under discussion. There are forces that feel that they should only be sold, not uploaded under any circumstances. Part of the rationale in my plan to upload to GEnie first, then the other networks is based on the fact that we share in the revenue generated in the Atari areas on GEnie. I hope that this will be persuasive in convincing the management to upload MultiTOS to GEnie, and then to the other networks once we've generated some dollars from the GEnie uploads. We don't have similar arrangements with Delphi and CIS. They both give us free access to support our mutual customers online, but that's it. No dollars are shared between us. This is an important fact to keep in mind in our decision making process. While I respect your opinion, and surely understand your desire to see the files uploaded on all networks at the same time, it just isn't practical. If the decision to upload the files is made, it will be on GEnie first, then after a period of time, the other networks. You will not be denied access to the files by choosing Delphi. You're access to them will only be delayed for a period of time (probably a month). best regards, Bob Brodie 48847 17-FEB 19:02 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48762) From: DPJ To: BIBLINSKI The point is, that you _are_ paying for it, albeit online time rather than a straight purchase. Why should an Atari user, screaming for support, have to wait a month (or whatever) to be able to get a file just because they aren't a user of a particular service? It seems that neither Atari or GEnie has learned anything from past history on this kind of thing. It didn't work well for the users before, and it won't this time either. 48834 17-FEB 17:37 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48758) From: ABARBIERO To: WAYNEDUNHAM Days weeks or months.... the whole exclusivity thing is moot. Fortunately or unfortunately Atari and GEnie have a special relationship with accounts and direct support being transferred. Many other companies do this and it is not a bad thing. Any time period is still arbitrary as no one has told me how, where, whom, why, or, when MTOS will be released. If there are any BUGS in MTOS it will only be BUGS in the sense of product support and the immediate release information. MTOS has been widely tested and should work as advertised for everyone with a 030 machine. It will work on an ST/STe, but the results can be less than stellar :-) When something as big as MTOS is going to be released, someone out there will find a way to install, use, run it wrong. The F030 version will be shipped with the computers, and appropriate documentation will be included. IF MTOS is released out on the nets, then naturally the support for it will not be the same, as there is no pre-printed docs, no dealer from whom the software was purchased, and all levels of user sophisication to consider. The way I look at it, my job it to help get Atari answers on Delphi, someone else, a while back, got that same job done for GEnie, and in return allows them to make a buck or two on the service they provide. Atari wont hurt anyone by this, and I will be excited to see something as important like MTOS given out for free.... would microsoft do this? NAH.... Andreas@AEO 48663 15-FEB 20:09 General Information RE: Lynx ad! (Re: Msg 48318) From: WAYNEDUNHAM To: MRBURKLEY Michael, Because there are those of us like myself, and several others who do get on multiple services. Many times I've played middle man between a user here, and a developer or support person over on another network. We (Atarians) are so fractured a group that simply shouting from the town square (GEnie) will not reach a major portion of our "tribe". We've got to send out messengers in all directions (yes, even CI$ I suppose) in order to get the word out. It's not going to be easy to mainstream the Atarians back into the fold who've either gone on to other platforms, (while still owning an Atari), have no dealer/Usergroup/magazine access, or who've just given up. We need MASS distribution, and only giving Mtos out via GEnie isn't going to come anywhere close to filling that bill. (IMHO) Wayne 48687 16-FEB 01:00 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48651) From: DAVIDNIELD To: ALL By the way.... The Falcon 030 is featured in the March 1993 Electronic Musician magazine. By featured, I mean it is on the info line on the top of the cover and on the spine! Its only a three page article, but it is very upbeat. It may not offer you any additional information; if you have been following the saga online here for the last -few- months, but I learned a few things. For instance, did you know that the Falcon has sampling rates which range from 8 kHz to 50kHz ,-but- that it skips the 44.1kHz rate used for CD preparation and the 48kHz rate used by DAT machines? It seems like a very strange -feature- to exclude the most useful rates for professional musicians...(am I right)? Apparently these rates will become available from third parties who will have to implement the correct crystals in external hardware devices. If you see it on the newstands, spend a few minutes and read the article--or spend the $3.95 and read it at home. It may become a collector's item....:) Dave 48694 16-FEB 02:52 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48687) From: BRYEDEWAARD To: DAVIDNIELD According to my Falcon Hardware manual, the 44.1 and 48KHz modes are both supported. -Bry 48990 18-FEB 23:32 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48902) From: BRYEDEWAARD To: DAVIDNIELD (NR) This is what the manual says, it's kinda vague. The bit clock is taken from from the master clock divided by a programmable value of 4 to 24 (in increments of 4). The Sample rate is then the bit rate, divided by 128: - -> Divide by n -> Bit Rate -> Divide by 128 -> Sample Rate Since the bit rate is 128 times the sample rate, there is room for eight 16-bit samples per second period. - Master Clock Divisor(n) Bit Rate Sample Rate ----------------------------------------------------- 25.175MHz 4 6.29375 MHz 49.17KHz (50KHz) 22.5792MHz 4 5.6448 MHz 44.1KHz (CD) 24.576MHz 4 6.144 MHz 48.0KHz (DAT) 32.000MHz 4 8.000 MHz 62.5KHz The internal 25.175 MHz clock is used to support STE compatible 50KHz,25KHz and 12.5KHz sound sample rates. The internal 32MHz clock is useful since it can be used to provide an 8MHz bit rate (or 1MB per sec.) which is the maximum transfer rate for the DSP SSI interface. The external clock comes from the DSP connector. It can run up to 32MHz. Some useful external clock rates are shown below: 22.5792 MHz gives CD rate of 44.1 KHz 24.576 MHz gives DAT rate of 48.0 KHz .......... This sounds to me like these rates WILL have to be external after all. -Bry About "loyalty" and consumerism..... 48700 16-FEB 04:18 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48456) From: ATARIO To: NORMW --> Take a look around, Steve. You, Andreas, Chris and AP7 are the diehards. --> Every one else sees Atari with a less enthusiastic view. I'd say that list above leaves out Oliver, since he at least plans to stay with Atari and still thinks it's a good machine, and also Gordie, for obvious reasons. And as for who's "on the other side", I'd say you, Dana, and Ralph. --> I have made a lot of friends in this Forum over the last seven years, --> and we are holding a wake for an old friend...the ST. If you think the machine is dead, why do you bother to attack it and/or attempt to kill enthusiasm over its resurrection? __ (_ __)teve 48725 16-FEB 14:21 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48700) From: OCS To: ATARIO > Take a look around, Steve. You, Andreas, Chris and AP7 are the diehards. > Every one else sees Atari with a less enthusiastic view. > > I'd say that list above leaves out Oliver, since he at least plans to > stay with Atari and still thinks it's a good machine, and also Gordie, > for obvious reasons. And as for who's "on the other side", I'd say > you, Dana, and Ralph. You are right, I still like my Atari, but that doesn't mean I am a die-hard. I see Atari (the company) with the less enthusiastic view Norm mentioned. As a matter of fact I never saw them with an enthusiastic view... all I want is a good computer, and it doesn't really matter if it is made by Atari, Commodore, or you name it. In other words, I do not stay with Atari, but with my Atari computer, because the computer still serves my needs. There is a difference... Oliver 48749 16-FEB 19:45 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48700) From: DPJ To: ATARIO I think that "diehard" can have a number of connotations. I'll probably use Atari hardware for as long as I can get one that will continue to work. But, I'm no longer a "blind" Atari user anymore. I used to think that Atari could do no wrong and whomever said otherwise, I was ready to "do battle" with them to prove otherwise. Not any longer. Reality struck. On one hand, the diehards are those who will use Atari computers until they cannot any longer because they aren't available; and there are those diehards that will continue to blindly praise the machines _and_ Atari until neither exists any longer. Take your pick. Norm's example were probably grouped into the second, while yours are in the first. <g> Dana @ STReport International Online Magazine 48778 16-FEB 23:55 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48749) From: NORMW To: DPJ Fair enough, Dana. I have no confidence in the company or its future, but I have three full-up Atari's in operation here. But I also have two other computers, and can see no purpose in continuing to design product for the Atari. Norm 49025 19-FEB 08:04 General Information RE: Rumor (Re: Msg 48700) From: RMARIANO To: ATARIO (NR) Look Steve, pay careful attention... I am a diehard Atarian. Repeat that three times and then hear me out. I am a diehard Atarian but I will not fall into to the trap of telling people in so many words that Atari can do no wrong or, make myself very, very busy making apologetic statements every time Atari pulls off another magnanomous PR blunder like this current issue of the MTOS release. No doubt... I'll be using an Atari for a very long time. But at the same time, I'll not yield to the pressure, back room politics, and head games. STReport will continue to point out _both_ sides of the coin. You see, there is no other side... we are all folks who enjoy using an Atari. There's simply some of us who refuse march to the beat of certain blunder drummers and zealots. 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